OOLOI.ORG
Menu

OOLOI

An Organism Evolved.

OVERVIEW

DOCUMENTATION

NEWSLETTER

As Time Signatures Go By

3/11/2025

9 Comments

 
Picture
You must remember this
a bis is just a bis
a sign is just a sign
The fundamental things apply
as time signatures go by

​Time signature support in Ooloi, from common to esoteric.

Plain Vanilla

Ooloi of course supports the usual:
Picture
... and in 'the usual' I include things like time signatures spanning multiple staves in scores for readability purposes, etc. You know, what you'd expect from a modern, professional program.

Intuitive Entry

​Specifying a time signature is simple: you just write your signature as a string in the input dialog: "4/4", "C", "2/2", etc. As you will see, this paradigm holds for very complex or unusual meters, too.

Additive Meters

Additive meters are of course also supported:
Picture
which simply is entered as "3+2+3/8".
Picture
which is entered as "2+2+2+3/8". You get the idea.

​You can do things like this too:
Picture
This would be input as "1/4+1/4+3/8+1/4". Use whitespace for clarity if you like: ​"1/4 + 1/4 + 3/8 + 1/4".

​You can combine this with multiple terms:
Picture
... which simply is entered as "3+2/8 + 6/16".

Orff, Fortuna!

Carl Orff invented a notation showing beat duration as a note symbol rather than a number. It's occasionally useful, so Ooloi supports it:
or
They are entered as "3/8" and "2/4.", respectively (don't miss the full stop at the end of the second string). There's a checkbox to trigger this type of formatting – but as the second example contains a dotted value, Ooloi will detect the latter case automatically.

Fractional Meters

Boulez, Ferneyhough, Finnissy et al. Yes, Ooloi will support fractional meters such as 4/3 or 4/5. I personally would never use them, but then it's not up to me to pass judgement on what I think is musical over-engineering. That's what conservatories are for.

​Consequently, Ooloi supports the following:
Picture
9 Comments
Magnus Johansson
3/11/2025 21:56:27

Thanks, Peter, for this concise and informative account. So Carl Heinrich Maria was the inventor of the time signature with a note value as denominator. Interesting. It is used throughout his and Gunild Keetman's Music for Children where it is written -- not very conspicuously -- only above the top staff after its initial clef.

Reply
Peter Bengtson link
4/11/2025 08:17:22

Quite true: the notation is often referred to as Orff notation, but it wasn't properly invented by him, and it still survives in teaching contexts. You also see it scribbled in conductors' scores, in both cases because it shows at a glance where the main rhythmic divisions fall, I think. The only problem with it is that it's not very suitable to put on the actual staff, as the note will be taken as a pitch; thus it needs to be put above the staff, or at multiple vertical locations, just like a rehearsal sign.

Reply
Magnus Johansson
7/11/2025 11:29:48

"[...] the notation is often referred to as Orff notation, but it wasn't properly invented by him, [...]"

OK, I see. I read on Wikipedia that Émile Jaques-Dalcroze proposed this way of writing time signatures in his collection "Le Rythme, la musique et l'éducation" from 1920, and it is obviously used in his teaching method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-YLE0PZAjA. Since Orff was inspired by Jaques-Dalcroze when creating the Orff-Schulwerk it is likely that he picked up this way of writing time signatures from him.

Reply
Ulrik Bodén
4/11/2025 12:07:47

I just want to say I'm following the development of this project with great interest!

Reply
Magnus Johansson
4/11/2025 13:01:15

That's great, Ulrik. Nice of you to comment.

Reply
Magnus Johansson
5/11/2025 08:19:34

"As you will see, this paradigm holds for very complex or unusual meters, too."

This is not the case in Igor Engraver although it has the string entry method; "2/4+3/4" is possible in Igor, but not "2+3/4" and "2+3/4+6/8". Igor has a check box for C and cut time, and one for "No units". It also has an Orff notation check box but it does not work.

Reply
Roland Gurt
5/11/2025 11:40:12

You might be aware of some of the time signatures Thomas Ades uses, like "3x5/12" (for 3 groups of 5/12; in the next bar it’s 4x5/12 and then 5x5/12, which is a good way of showing this "growth" in meter). https://pasteboard.co/1gl0QPNoMWzF.png

Also something like 2/4(5/10) https://pasteboard.co/fuY4qt0gzvVf.png

(both examples from his piano quintet)

Reply
Peter Bengtson link
7/11/2025 13:49:31

Seven comments to a post about time signatures - that's absolutely a record for this site so far. I'm thrilled that this topic is so engaging.

It's interesting that we're talking about fractional and irrational metres here. Supporting irrational meters such as 4/3 is a must today, and there's literature out there that professional engravers encounter.

Fractional meters such as 2½/4 which appears in Grainger and Chavez are much more uncommon, though, and it appears that ¼ never actually appears in literature, despite Boulez' writing about it. If someone actually has seen it, I'd be interested to hear about it.

I'll probably implement ½ only initially. This covers the canonical Grainger/Chávez examples in the actual published repertoire. Adding ¼ later if demand materialises is straightforward. Full arbitrary fraction support for the numerator (5/7, 3/11, etc.) would be gold-plating for theoretical cases that don't exist in actual scores.

We shall see. I'll have to write an ADR about this, clearly.

Reply
Klaus Schmirler
7/11/2025 22:24:07

Bohuslav Martinu has bars of 1/8 in the last of his Rhythmical Studies: https://petruccimusiclibrary.ca/files/imglnks/caimg/a/af/IMSLP36216-PMLP80840-Martinu_-_Etudes_rhythmiques_(violin_and_piano).pdf

(Interesting discussion, btw. I had thought that fractional denominators in the numerator were strictly a Don Ellis thing.)

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    Author

    Peter Bengtson –
    Cloud architect, Clojure advocate, concert organist, opera composer. Craft over commodity. Still windsurfing through parentheses.

    Search

    Archives

    November 2025
    October 2025
    September 2025
    August 2025
    July 2025
    June 2025
    April 2025
    March 2025
    September 2024
    August 2024
    July 2024

    Categories

    All
    Architecture
    Benchmarks
    Clojure
    CLOS
    Common Lisp
    Death Of Igor Engraver
    Documentation
    Donald E Knuth
    Dorico
    Finale
    FrankenScore
    Franz Kafka
    Functional Programming
    Generative AI
    GPL V2
    GRPC
    Igor Engraver
    Jacques Derrida
    JVM
    License
    LilyPond
    Lisp
    MIDI
    MuseScore
    Ooloi
    Ortography
    Pitches
    Plugins
    Python
    Rhythm
    Rich Hickey
    Road Map
    Scheme
    Sibelius
    Site
    Sponsorship
    UI
    Vertigo
    VST/AU
    Wednesday Addams

    RSS Feed

Home
​Overview
Documentation
About
Contact
Newsletter
Ooloi is a modern, open-source music notation software designed to handle complex musical scores with ease. It is designed to be a flexible and powerful music notation software tool providing professional, high-quality results. The core functionality includes inputting music notation, formatting scores and their parts, and printing them. Additional features can be added as plugins, allowing for a modular and customizable user experience.​


  • Home
  • Overview
    • Background and History
    • Project Goals
    • Introduction for Musicians
    • Introduction for Programmers
    • Introduction for Anti-Capitalists
    • Technical Comparison
  • Documentation
  • About
  • Contact
  • Home
  • Overview
    • Background and History
    • Project Goals
    • Introduction for Musicians
    • Introduction for Programmers
    • Introduction for Anti-Capitalists
    • Technical Comparison
  • Documentation
  • About
  • Contact